What are the profit margins on bicycles


Leave the archive and display this page in the standard design: Dealer margin when buying a bike?



These days my new bike is arriving at my "trusted dealer". Now I ask myself what is the dealer margin? Or is that one of the great secrets of our time?

These days my new bike is arriving at my "trusted dealer". Now I ask myself what is the dealer margin? Or is that one of the great secrets of our time?

What is the margin at VW?

Too many factors are decisive here.

These days my new bike is arriving at my "trusted dealer". Now I ask myself what is the dealer margin? Or is that one of the great secrets of our time?

The range will differ greatly depending on whether you buy from a small local dealer or from large providers such as Hergarden and consorts.
Nevertheless, you can assume that the small retailer will add another 50% to their EK to determine their sales.
But after all, your dealer has to live on something ...
(My on-site dealer e.g. has 3 children and a wife to feed!;))


Edit: the topic has already been chewed through here:

http://forum.tour-magazin.de/showthread.php?t=112286&highlight=einkaufpreis+h%E4ndler

I definitely don't want to exclude my dealer, he is absolutely top, but what does my new Madone (RRP € 3300) cost him when purchasing from TREK?

Edit: the topic has already been chewed through here:

http://forum.tour-magazin.de/showthread.php?t=112286&highlight=einkaufpreis+h%E4ndler

I have to explicitly point out that I wasn't a mod back then! : D

Oh yes, another VERY GEILER: http://forum.tour-magazin.de/showthread.php?t=92844

:Applause:

I definitely don't want to exclude my dealer, he is absolutely top, but what does my new Madone (RRP € 3300) cost him when purchasing from TREK?

Ask at delta-bike.de what your dream trek will cost you there. ;) They also specialize in trek.
Delta-bike will also earn something from the cause, but there will still be a clear difference in price compared to your local dealer, I guess. Incidentally, in my experience, you drive very well with the people from delta, both in terms of price, as well as advice and workshop.

I definitely don't want to exclude my dealer, he is absolutely top, but what does my new Madone (RRP € 3300) cost him when purchasing from TREK?

Then ask your dealer how many pre-orders he made.: D.
So we come a little closer to the goal.

VK by 1.8 times 1.19 - that is roughly the EK including tax.

VK by 1.8 times 1.19 - that is roughly the EK including tax.

: rolleyes:

As always, the profit lies in purchasing

Trek Madone 5.0 (http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=trek+Madone&scoring=p)

http://bicyclesportshop.com/images/library/large/trek_madone_50_07_m.jpg

I definitely don't want to exclude my dealer, he is absolutely top, but what does my new Madone (RRP € 3300) cost him when purchasing from TREK?

how many madones does your dealer sell each year, how many trek bikes in general?

... how high is the dealer margin? Or is it one of the great secrets of our time? And again the beginning of a conspiracy theory ...

How high is the profit margin of a "normal" employee ????

And again the beginning of a conspiracy theory ...

How high is the profit margin of a "normal" employee ????

: D

This has no purpose and makes no sense to discuss such a topic here: rolleyes:

Bicycle dealers generally drive cars from Audi A6, Porsche Cayene, or large S-Class upwards;): D Everyone knows;)

A dealer earned a minimum of € 2000 on such a Madone ..... if not more;): D

A house on Mallorca or another beautiful sunny island is usually also mandatory;): D

CAUTION IRONY ...........;)

: D

This has no purpose and makes no sense to discuss such a topic here: rolleyes:

Bicycle dealers generally drive cars from Audi A6, Porsche Cayene, or large S-Class upwards;): D Everyone knows;)

A dealer earned a minimum of € 2000 on such a Madone ..... if not more;): D

A house on Mallorca or another beautiful sunny island is usually also mandatory;): D

CAUTION IRONY ...........;)


Do you have to have a life: D.

They deserve stupid and stupid. One bike sold a month and the shop can stay for a month for the time being: rolleyes:

: D

This has no purpose and makes no sense to discuss such a topic here: rolleyes:

Bicycle dealers generally drive cars from Audi A6, Porsche Cayene, or large S-Class upwards;): D Everyone knows;)

A dealer earned a minimum of € 2000 on such a Madone ..... if not more;): D

A house on Mallorca or another beautiful sunny island is usually also mandatory;): D

CAUTION IRONY ...........;)

Some can even afford to stop selling frames for a while. The industry is just doing too well!

SCNR

Do you have to have a life: D.

Bitter ..... I'm almost ashamed of it: D: D: D

Do you have to have a life: D.

has olli too, he earns so well, he doesn't even have to drive the cars himself, here in the forum he doesn't write himself either, he lets people write ...: D

They deserve stupid and stupid. One bike sold a month and the shop can stay for a month for the time being: rolleyes:

I heard it too. Ne 'Dura Ace is said to cost less than € 80 to buy. With a retail price of € 800, that makes over 100% profit! : eek:

I'll put the thumbscrews on my dealer! : new_argue

Some can even afford to stop selling frames for a while. The industry is just doing too well!

SCNR

That's right. The worst rip-off mentality prevails in the bike trade .......

has olli too, he earns so well, he doesn't even have to drive the cars himself, here in the forum he doesn't write himself either, he lets people write ...: D

cool: applause:

Bitter ..... I'm almost ashamed of it: D: D: D

Oh Oli,

we can understand you

has olli too, he earns so well, he doesn't even have to drive the cars himself, here in the forum he doesn't write himself either, he lets people write ...: D

: Applause: Live and let live: D

Ne 'Dura Ace is said to cost less than € 80 to buy. With a retail price of € 800, that makes over 100% profit!

Ouch! Ouch! Ouch!

: Applause: Live and let live: D

have you now hired the brother for you, or does he write for you?: D he has signed off ...: ü

have you now employed the brother for you, or does he write for you?: D he has signed off ...: ü

Brother: eek:

Oh, the hat bearer from my neighborhood ...: rolleyes :: D

No, it screws .........: ä: D

Ouch! Ouch! Ouch!

Well, let's not talk about profit margins for jeans here, then some of them would probably close their bike shops ...

Brother: eek:

colleague tak stop ...: howling:

Well, let's not talk about profit margins for jeans here, then some of them would probably close their bike shops ...

That could be good. With jeans you are definitely getting closer to the 1000% mentioned by Stephan. : D

That's right. The worst rip-off mentality prevails in the bike trade .......

Well, no prisoners ...: D

That could be good. With jeans you are definitely getting closer to the 1000% mentioned by Stephan. : D

That should really be about: D

That could be good. With jeans you are definitely getting closer to the 1000% mentioned by Stephan. : D

You have not understood the intention of my joke. : D

BTW, what about the brother ??? Probably could be atomized. Does he have to screw so much that he no longer has time to post meaninglessly? : D

You have not understood the intention of my joke. : D

The fun stops with dealer spans: D: D: D

Possibly one should also mention that at the dealer around the corner the difference between sales and purchase price is not the same as the profit margin! ;)

Possibly one should also mention that at the dealer around the corner the difference between sales and purchase price is not the same as the profit margin! ;)

Is it different with other dealers: eek :: D

Uuupsi.

I'm just noticing something. The thread has:


nothing to do with parts, tests or technology and
it drifts noticeably in the direction of off topic


I'll give him a little kick, let's see if I hit this & everything ...

http://www.fussball-foren.net/images/smiles/fussball-smilie.gif: D

You are welcome to work this out using a specific example.

I bought a Pavo with Ultegra and Fulcrum LR last year.
Costs 3299 in the price list.
My dealer has sold it to me for 2900 incl.
He bought it around 2680 incl.

With a bigger one a few km further, I would have got it for 2800.
But for me the whole thing counts as well. Service, repair etc ...
Since I've already bought two other racing bikes for ATS 50,000 and € 2,200 and a mountain bike for ATS 15,000, the fringe benefits also include regular customer conditions that you usually don't get from a large dealer. They have a standard price list for various service work and that's it.

So now I think you can easily calculate the range!

They earn themselves stupid and stupid just by selling hoses.
Normal Schwalbe costs 8 € (: eek :), of which they sell at least 1000 pieces a day. Stick to an average of 2500 € profit, sometimes 6 days a week, sometimes 220 days a year ...

Possibly one should also mention that at the dealer around the corner the difference between sales and purchase price is not the same as the profit margin! ;)


One thing is clear: profit is the entire turnover including VAT.

They earn themselves stupid and stupid just by selling hoses.
Normal Schwalbe costs 8 € (: eek :), of which they sell at least 1000 pieces a day. Stuck on an average of 2500 € profit, sometimes 6 days a week, sometimes 220 days a year ...

: eek: For real? Hammer ... I'll do that too! (*** write notice of termination for a well-paid job ***)


One thing is clear: profit is the entire turnover including VAT.

: confused:: krabben:: eek:: tekst-doo: tekst-pun: hm:

again someone who doesn't know his way around !!!

Sales is the sales revenue.
The dealer still has to buy the goods.
Purchasing
+ Purchase
-Sale (valued at EK)

= End of stock according to inventory
- shrinkage

= Stock

Profit = sales - cost of goods - other costs.

again someone who doesn't know his way around !!!



Rene ....

You have to be very strong now. : D

Everything is not always meant 100% seriously here. ;)

One thing is clear: profit is the entire turnover including VAT.

correct! do you also intend to flee to a country that does not extradite?

They earn themselves stupid and stupid just by selling hoses.
Normal Schwalbe costs 8 € (: eek :), of which they sell at least 1000 pieces a day. Stuck on an average of 2500 € profit, sometimes 6 days a week, sometimes 220 days a year ...


You're right. They do not earn badly with the secondary items, but with the bicycles (see my example) it often doesn't look so good.
For example, if the dealer has the bikes left at the end of the season, he has almost no choice but to sell them at half price or at least at a reduced price. Then the profit is gone.
In addition, one has to say that there is a seasonal lull from November to March. But the costs for the shop or the staff have to be paid anyway.

Then it is no wonder why the small traders around the corner have to lock up one after the other, as they do with groceries.

One thing is clear: profit is the entire turnover including VAT.

were you in irony mode?

again someone who doesn't know his way around !!!

Sales is the sales revenue.
The dealer still has to buy the goods.
Purchasing
+ Purchase
-Sale (valued at EK)

= End of stock according to inventory
- shrinkage

= Stock

well, you only know a little about that, there are still a few points missing when it comes to price calculation and by the time the inventory is made, a bike should have disappeared from the store, in the above case the customer has it already ordered if I read that correctly ...

You're right. They don't earn badly with the side items, but with the bicycles (see my example) things often don't look so good.
For example, if the dealer has the bikes left at the end of the season, he has almost no choice but to sell them at half price or at least at a reduced price. Then the profit is gone.


so i don't know how things work when it comes to wheels, but i guess there are also depreciation approaches similar to those in other areas ...;) keyword lowest value principle

My post should only express that some are a little on the wrong track with the view "VK-EK = amount that the retailer has in his pocket at the end of the day" ....

And of course this is not only the case with the small retailer around the corner, that should only express that large mail order companies like HS or bike24 do not have all of the overhead costs as the small retailer and can therefore, of course, calculate more tightly ...;)

You are welcome to work this out using a specific example.

I bought a Pavo with Ultegra and Fulcrum LR last year.
Costs 3299 in the price list.
My dealer has sold it to me for 2900 incl.
He bought it around 2680 incl.

With all due respect, your dealer teased you a bit. I'll be the last to say that dealers are doing too well, but he wanted to moan. He will have already taken his € 500-700 ...

And of course this is not only the case with the small retailer around the corner, that should only express that large mail order companies like HS or bike24 do not have all of the overhead costs as the small retailer and can therefore, of course, calculate more tightly ...;)

... and one must not forget that it:


There are OEM goods where everything can be completely different again (VK for a large retailer lower than the purchase price for a small shop: eek:)
The range per product group and sometimes even from manufacturer to manufacturer fluctuates extremely. The retailer earns little from hype brands, they are prestigious goods. He earns a lot in percentage terms from no-name clothes.
Etc.

With all due respect, your dealer teased you a bit. I'll be the last to say that dealers are doing too well, but he wanted to moan. He will have already taken his € 500-700 ...


So that's it, unless the ranges have narrowed like that in the last 8-10 years. From 1995 to 2000 I worked in the bike shop next to school. You could almost always say that the purchase price of the EK was + 50%! ;)

With all due respect, your dealer teased you a bit. I'll be the last to say that dealers are doing too well, but he wanted to moan. He will have already taken his € 500-700 ...


Nene, that can be done. If the dealer had sold RRP, then he would have earned his € 600 ...

The problem lies with complete bikes. The profit margin is not that big.

If a dealer builds a bike from individual parts, i.e. orders everything individually, then he will probably earn more.

With all due respect, your dealer teased you a bit. I'll be the last to say that dealers are doing too well, but he wanted to moan. He will have already taken his € 500-700 ...

This is unfortunately not the case. I saw Simplon's bill on his desk, what I wrote is true.
At Simplon there are unfortunately no special prices like at Scott or Giant. Several dealers have assured me of this.
All you have to do is compare. The basic Phasic from Simplon costs just under € 2000 a lot more than comparable products from other manufacturers.

My post should only express that some are a little on the wrong track with the view "VK-EK = amount that the retailer has in his pocket at the end of the day" ....

And of course this is not only the case with the small retailer around the corner, that should only express that large mail-order companies like HS or bike24 do not have all of the overhead costs that the small retailer does and can logically calculate more tightly ...

You can see that, for example, with the tires and tubes, as has already been indicated.

For example, the Michelle Pro Race2 in the Bikers Best catalog costs € 48 (2007). At bike24 you get almost 2 pieces for this. Of course there is a discount on the price at the retailer, but you still earn enough, even if your ancillary costs are higher than those of the online providers.

That's why I already know some dealers who then order the goods straight away from bike24 or other online providers.

This is unfortunately not the case. I saw Simplon's bill on his desk, what I wrote is true.

An invoice alone does not say anything about any conditions that someone may have for their activity as a contractual partner ordealer gets! I don't know exactly what the bike industry looks like here either, but in other sectors there are certain models that make a retailer fare quite well, provided that they also generate corresponding sales ...;) but generally have to the dealer also lives from what! In the long run, good service is worth more than a "stingy is cool" price, although that is also a bad example, as we all know that markets like saturn are usually overpriced, where the "good" ensures "marketing for sales ...: rolleyes:

well, you only know a little about that, there are still a few points missing when it comes to price calculation and by the time the inventory is made, a bike should have disappeared from the store, in the above case the customer has it already ordered if I read that correctly ...



I already know how to calculate the profit in detail, but that's enough for most people to get a rough idea. With too much detail, people are only more confused.

an invoice alone says nothing about any conditions that someone might get for their work as a contractual partner or dealer! I don't know exactly what the bike industry looks like here either, but in other sectors there are certain models that make a retailer fare quite well, provided that they also generate corresponding sales ...;) but generally have to the dealer also lives from what! In the long run, good service is worth more than a "stingy is cool" price, although that is also a bad example, as we all know that markets like saturn are usually overpriced "marketing for sales ...: rolleyes:

I just can approve that too. I bought a DVD recorder for Christmas. It was 50 € cheaper at my RedZac dealer than at the media market. I can give other examples here, but let's leave that.

When it comes to bicycle dealers, of course, most small shops don't usually have brands like Simplon in their range. The Vorarlbergers have their own views. I know a dealer (major importer of Wheeler) who has an old Exos in his window. The thing still costs 1400 euros for him, although it has long been overtaken with a 9-speed Ultegra. Is now almost 5 years old. I once asked about the VK, he didn't want less than 1200. At this price you can get other better devices today.

I once bought a bike whose cost price was supposedly about 36% below the RRP. EK I don't know.
I got it cheaper, so the dealer didn't actually make a profit. In this case it was a demonstration model, which puts his "loss" into perspective if he has delivered other bikes of the same type to order.

One more thing. It may also depend on the size.

As I already wrote, I bought a Simplon Pavo. Has RH 65.
Could be a little bigger. But unfortunately it doesn't exist.
Some manufacturers offer custom-made products, but then also at a special price!

BTW, what about the brother ??? Probably could be atomized. Does he have to screw so much that he no longer has time to post meaninglessly? : D

his advice was always helpful!: howling:

And again the beginning of a conspiracy theory ...

How high is the profit margin of a "normal" employee ????

So I know a lot of people who earn around 1500 euros net don't think that you can talk about profit margin, they don't even dream of a new bike :)

So I know a lot of people who earn around 1500 euros net don't think that you can talk about profit margin, they don't even dream of a new bike :)

Subtract all costs and then ask your friends what's "left over" ......: howling:

Subtract all costs and then ask your friends what's "left over" ......: howling:

Nothing :( sometimes even less

Nothing :( sometimes even less

So .... and now we're going to put it on the bike shop ..... and it'll be halfway again;)

In any case, I don't know many dealers who own "big cars", have fancy houses on malls, or have a yacht somewhere ..... actually none .........

Most of them are just as happy as any other "normal" employee if something remains "over" at the end of the month.
Certainly nobody gets rich;)

Now it comes down to the definition of "rich" where does wealth begin, everyone has their own ideas.;)

P.S I can't complain about my dealer, he makes good prices and I have to make sure that his 15 employees earn something too :)

Now it comes down to the definition of "rich" where does wealth begin, everyone has their own ideas.;)

P.S I can't complain about my dealer, he makes good prices and I have to make sure that his 15 employees earn something too :)

Exactly .... if there are employees, they also want "a little" something: D

Rich .... good question .... I would define rich in such a way that you actually have to let yourself be seen more in the store, but only let others "buy" and only increase the bills by yourself: D

Seriously ... name me 5 normal bike dealers who have a standard of living above that, like most people with normal income.

So house on malls, yacht in port ..... really "fat" cart .......: D: D

Maybe not personally, but certainly from the name: http://fotos-alt.mtb-news.de/fotos/showphoto.php?photo=10697: ä

I said "not many .......": D

Josef Hergarden will definitely not be so bad either. Certainly not von Hacht. Ok, on the manufacturer side there are quite a few who are doing really well: Storck, Colnago, Pinarello e.g.

Josef Hergarden will definitely not be so bad either. Certainly not von Hacht either. Ok, on the manufacturer side there are quite a few who are doing really well: Storck, Colnago, Pinarello e.g.

These are all no longer normal bike dealers ..........;)

... who earn about 1500 euros net do not think that one can talk about profit marginWhy not !! An employee makes his labor available and wants a wage for it! *
How much does he have to bring in initially in order to be able to offer the service? If he gets something (work and wages) what he gets is his profit margin. Usually immeasurably high! Because the time he sacrifices cannot be quantified with a price. The equivalent (time) has no cost price from which one can assume. If there is a price for the time, it is only because someone (e.g. trade unions) specifies (or recommends) a profit margin for e.g. 1 minute (hour) of work ...


* That we understand each other correctly:
1.) The whole thing as described above is correct and correct. So that someone is rewarded for what they do in return.

2.) Even if the thread creator might not want it that way, this type of discussion usually results in a dealer (regardless of whether it's a bicycle or something else) asking inappropriate profit margins! So with the conclusion: what I earn by contributing my work is never enough (or at least rarely), but what someone else takes from me for a product is too much ...

Josef Hergarden will definitely not be so bad either. Certainly not von Hacht either.

However, these are no longer "traders", but rather seasoned bosses of large trading companies.

For example, if Erwin R. from B. drives a Porsche, IMHO, he really deserves it. ;)

However, these are no longer "traders", but rather seasoned bosses of large trading companies.

For example, if Erwin R. from B. drives a Porsche, IMHO, he really deserves it. ;)

Just ...... these are all people who have "hunched" their entire lives ......
I don't think any normal working person would really want to swap with them about "contribution" to the company. From the nervous stress and financial risks that one has to take in order to "pull up" such companies, let's not even talk about it .....

However, these are no longer "traders", but rather seasoned bosses of large trading companies.

For example, if Erwin R. from B. drives a Porsche, IMHO, he really deserves it. ;)

who knows, maybe these things are leased !;)

who knows, maybe these things are leased !;)

And? : D

My propeller car is also leased, I'll pay for it anyway, one way or another.

And it's even easier with Erwin. Since he owns the shop, it doesn't matter whether he takes out the coal first or does the leasing through the company.

I find these German debates about merit somehow bizarre.

When the American sees the fat Cayenne in front of the Glaspalast in Bocholt, he thinks "hmm, it seems to be a shop valued by cyclists, and this quirky Erwin must be a very competent boss, otherwise he wouldn't be able to drive such a big car. I think I'll test the store, let's see what they can do. " : D

The German (apart from our charming moderator bear and a few others;)) thinks "Damn, he'll buy such a big car with our money. Now I want to see his tax return first, otherwise I'll ask for a 25% discount on the next purchase, minimum." : mad:

Of course, without the German being willing to bring his own tax return with him. : ü

I find these German debates about merit somehow bizarre.

When the American sees the fat Cayenne in front of the Glaspalast in Bocholt, he thinks to himself "hmm, seems to be a shop valued by cyclists, and this quirky Erwin must be a very competent boss, otherwise he wouldn't be able to drive such a big car. I think I'll test the store, let's see what they can do. " : D

The German (apart from our charming moderator bear and a few others;)) thinks "Damn, he'll buy such a big car with our money. Now I want to see his tax return first, otherwise I'll ask for a 25% discount on the next purchase, minimum." : mad:

Of course, without the German being willing to bring his own tax return with him. : ü



Nobody here wants to hear that: D: D: D

And it's even easier with Erwin. Since he owns the shop, it doesn't matter whether he takes out the coal first or does the leasing through the company.

Calculate the tax savings in both cases ... :)

I find these German debates about merit somehow bizarre.

When the American sees the fat Cayenne in front of the Glaspalast in Bocholt, he thinks to himself "hmm, seems to be a shop valued by cyclists, and this quirky Erwin must be a very competent boss, otherwise he wouldn't be able to drive such a big car. I think I'll test the store, let's see what they can do. " : D

The German (apart from our charming moderator bear and a few others;)) thinks "damn, he'll buy such a big car with our money. Now I want to see his tax return first, otherwise I'll ask for a 25% discount on my next purchase, minimum." : mad:

Of course, without the German being willing to bring his own tax return with him. : ü

... but when the American sees that the boss is at the till, thinks
he: not only competent but also clever - this way E. also saves personnel costs and has peace and quiet at home: D

... and has his peace at home: D: Applause:: Applause:: Applause:

... but when the American sees that the boss is at the till, thinks
he: not only competent but also clever - this way E. also saves personnel costs and has peace and quiet at home: D

It's good: applause:

Calculate the tax savings in both cases ... :)

Oh MAN! : D

For most of them it would have been enough argumentative.

: D
A dealer earned a minimum of € 2000 on such a Madone ..... if not more;): D

A house on Mallorca or another beautiful sunny island is usually also mandatory;): D

CAUTION IRONY ...........;)

So bike dealers always tell me the opposite:
If the dealer has made a reasonably acceptable price for the Madone (i.e. not above the list price), he will put it on top of it mercilessly. He not only buys the madone more expensive than he passes it on to you, he also has to pay several master salaries out of his own pocket, plus the rent for a property in a top location. To become a bicycle dealer, you need a strong tendency towards self-destruction.

CAUTION only partially IRONY ...........;)

Tom

Isn't there something like the abnormal threshold?

Seriously ... A really lively bike dealer saw me a long time ago ... I can hardly remember. I take care of the things that I can't or don't want to do myself through neighborhood help. Done out. Payment is made in kind or in service. The next job of my screwdriver is already being done by me by helping him for 2 hours with something that has to do with cycling nullinger. For this he then screws ... Perfect ...

I can only repeat myself here: At first I bought a lot from specialist dealers and also had screwdriver work done. But after a maximum of 2 months, my own skills were so much higher than the work that was done on my bike that it was no longer worth it. I also never experienced advice in the narrow sense (at best, the intrusive attempt to convince myself of the most expensive). So I prefer to order cheap from H&S and the like and tinker with the box myself ...

I can only repeat myself here: At first I bought a lot from specialist dealers and also had screwdriver work done. But after a maximum of 2 months, my own skills were so much higher than the work that was done on my bike that it was no longer worth it. I also never experienced advice in the narrow sense (at best, the intrusive attempt to convince myself of the most expensive). So I prefer to order cheap from H&S and the like and tinker with the box myself ...

If necessary, you can always ask the best screwdriver.

Fortunately I have a good and cheap 250 m away.

So I know a lot of people who earn around 1500 euros net don't think that you can talk about profit margin, they don't even dream of a new bike :)

So Moooooment times, I have to click in again. On average, I barely left a month, bought a wife and child and bought a house in 2000. Nevertheless, I'm now buying the Madone - but it probably only works here in the east of D: D

So Moooooment times, I have to click in again. On average, I barely left a month, bought a wife and child and bought a house in 2000. Still, I'm now buying the Madone - but it probably only works here in the east of D: D

But now ... You paid off the house a long time ago ...: D

So Moooooment times, I have to click in again. On average, I barely left a month, bought a wife and child and bought a house in 2000. Nevertheless, I'm now buying the Madone - but it probably only works here in the east of D: D

East mafia or solos .... where does all the money come from: confused:


: D

And it's even easier with Erwin. Since he owns the shop, it doesn't matter whether he takes out the coal first or does the leasing through the company.


Calculate the tax savings in both cases ... :)


Oh MAN! : D

For most of them it would have been enough argumentative.

But we are not most of them: ä Klappradl has already recognized that the good Erwin would at the latest be denounced by his tax advisor as a fraudster ...



He'll buy such a big cart from our coal.

that there are still Germans who think that many "fat" German cars are bought ... the manufacturers usually only get rid of the "fat" cars through leasing ...., although we write 08 when I think about it just as prices have risen when it comes to cars, "thick" almost starts with golf ...: rolleyes:


Nobody here wants to hear that: D: D: D

exactly what kind of car does bornmann drive? he's not just a big entrepreneur, he's a kind of "cycling godfather": D


So Moooooment times, I have to click in again. On average, I barely left a month, bought a wife and child and bought a house in 2000. Nevertheless, I'm now buying the Madone - but it probably only works here in the east of D: D

: eek: i live and work in the west, i can't afford a wife, child or house: crying:


So I prefer to order cheap from H&S and the like and tinker with the box myself ...

h & s?: eek: wait until you have the "nice" lady on the phone, answering the questions about your own order ..., I have never seen anything like this in a specialist shop, the lady is definitely only there "fifth" season in a good mood ...: rolleyes:

But now ... You paid off the house a long time ago ...: D



No, "only" 25 billion remaining debt, but in the last few years a lot has been put into the renovation!

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